News out of MWC a couple of weeks back that Cisco had teamed with NTT to get serious about big-ticket private 5G for multinational enterprises was somewhat overshadowed by rival HPE’s purchase of core network specialist Athonet to do the same. But that was only, perhaps, because HPE had splashed out, whereas Cisco has shrunk-down and optimised its own core network proposition for enterprises. Which, in ways, tells its own tale.
What is clear, from both notices, is the IT crowd is serious suddenly about private 5G – possibly 18 months behind traditional telecoms vendors, perhaps six-to-12 months behind the assorted hyperscale stable-plays, and probably six months ahead of any serious-minded OT operatives joining the market. Their entry looks to be just-in-time, as (finger in the air) the hype curve slopes into a generic ‘trough of disillusionment’ – as with any maturing technology.
But in conversation with RCR Wireless – actually, down the blower after MWC-week, when this old hack was detained at home – Cisco is supremely measured about its timing and opportunity. Wi-Fi will remain the king-tech in the enterprise space, it reasons (as it reasonably would), and is developing as a technology, also, it notes; 5G, it says, is a useful extension to serve a range of use cases that want more than Wi-Fi (versions five-though-seven).
But private 5G offers a crucial outlet in the broad Industry 4.0 gameplay; enterprises are interested in 5G to get their digital change projects on track, but they want it to work on their terms. This is the key message from Masum Mir, senior vice president and general manager for Cisco’s networking provider mobility business. And his argument is that Cisco, unlike its rivals, has made it so – to work with and work like existing enterprise Wi-Fi systems.
Plus Cisco has its channels to market primed and ready. Its new deal with NTT, announced at MWC, is its grab for scale; but it has arrangements with General Dynamics Information Technology (GDIT) to go after defense and government contracts, and Logicalis to pursue specialist local industrial IoT gigs. More deals will be done, he says, including with the most SI-like mobile operators on sales, and with the biggest ones on global network access.
The full interview is printed below; all the answers are from Mir. An interview with NTT, covering some of the same ground, will appear next week.
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Just sum up, briefly, how you view the private 5G opportunity – how cellular fits alongside Wi-Fi in the Industry 4.0 picture from a Cisco point of view.
“We see a lot of potential, but the market is still very early. The ecosystem is still maturing – even the consumer handset side is not there yet, right? And you can’t talk with industry about 5G in isolation. Enterprises know they need to digitise their physical worlds, and that existing Wi-Fi and LAN architecture is often limiting – distance and coverage is becoming an issue; hybridisation and machine management is becoming challenging.
“So they have been looking to augment what they already have. That augmentation will take some time, but we need to participate now – because the planning and process changes required as part of this next technology evolution, particularly for big multinational organisations, will take time. So it is early days, but 5G will be a sizeable opportunity in the enterprise space, as part of this Industry 4.0 process, and we need to participate.”
The timing is interesting. Some vendors have been pushing private cellular hard for some time, alongside a bunch of newer faces which have joined the market with cloud core and open RAN systems. And then some interested OT specialists think time is still on their side – which corresponds with what you say about an ‘early market’. How does Cisco see the timing, and the urgency of it?
“For some industries, it is an imminent need; for others, it is an emerging need. The [supplier] industry should be more selective [about the sectors it targets], and not [try to] run too fast. And, again, 5G is only a part of a bigger digital transformation, where more ‘things’ will be connected and networked. That has to be done in a secure and trusted way, and by avoiding this trap of creating yet another network silo.
“Our view is to focus on certain industries, and think holistically. 5G cannot exist in isolation. There must be a bridge for enterprises to go from where they are now to where they need to be – by augmenting what they have. They are already connected on Wi-Fi – not just in carpeted environments, but in industrial settings too. They have well-run processes [on Wi-Fi], which are evolving [with Wi-Fi] to be more robust, secure, and simple.
“We have an obligation to help them to move faster with new technologies, and not to slow them down. That is our focus with 5G, as well. The policy and security infrastructure we are putting in place for mission-critical Wi-Fi has to work the same with 5G. The type of visibility they implement to [manage] their processes… [has to be the same] for 5G. And the experience, going between network infrastructure, has to be seamless.
“A device anchored on a Wi-Fi network has to be able to move onto a 5G network. That needs to be seamless for IT, as well as OT. And the other thing is about simplification. More technology means more complexity, which can make adoption very difficult. Which is why we have been very focused to make these technologies easy to manage and easy to use – for IT and OT, and not just for telcos, as it has traditionally been implemented.”
Has the central core network proposition – which you are pushing via NTT, and certain others – changed much in the last 12 months. Because RCR Wireless spoke with Cisco at MWC a year ago, and something was brewing. But you haven’t bought-in, like certain rivals. So how has your in-house core network proposition developed in that time?
“Yes, a lot has happened in that time. Twelve months ago, we would have talked about how complex the [public macro] core network is. But, now, the [private 5G] core is literally invisible to IT. There has been lots of work between times – with cloud [virtualisation] and operation, and integration with common policy, security, and visibility. Most importantly, there has been work around the ecosystem we can bring with it.
“Which means pre-integration and what-not, and also how to deliver it to the market. Because it is not just about the technology, but about the deep experience to bring it to market – coming from our system integration partners, which are becoming managed service providers. That has been a big change, and we are so proud to work with NTT. And we will add more managed service partners everywhere in the world.”
In terms of how Cisco’s private 5G core has been integrated and made-invisible – is that different, would Cisco argue, to what rivals are offering – like HPE with Athonet, or NTT with Celona (also), or Kyndryl with Nokia? Is yours distinct from all of these others?
“Well, we all have to follow 3GPP, right? But we have taken a different approach to putting an IT and OT mindset on that process. Because cellular requires a different IT and OT lens for IT and OT usage. You have to think about what enterprises use already; they use Wi-Fi [for networking] and [software for] identity, rather than SIM identity, as in a carrier network. [Enterprise-based network architecture is optimised in software] around the user persona.
“The evolution is how you integrate a highly distributed architecture with the enterprise stack so enterprises don’t need to go to the depths of 3GPP themselves; they just get a beautiful IT-friendly dashboard which integrates with their own ITC management systems and DNS protection systems, and common visibility – at a click of a button. Which is all new; the complexity of 3GPP is completely hidden from the operator.
“And another very important realisation is that these systems have to sit inside the firewall of the enterprise, but also talk to the whole world of the internet. So these are the changes and the evolution, and the differences of our approach – to put IT and OT lenses into the technology, rather than just shrink-wrapping what we have for carriers.”
There is an argument Cisco has been eerily quiet on private 5G so far. I am aware the NTT announcement (at MWC) is really about a service provider channel deal, although NTT also brings certain other pieces; but is this the point, then, at which Cisco starts to make noise in the market?
“Yes, I’d agree we have been silent so far. But we have been silent because we have had to solve the problem first. We are not going to take technology to an enterprise before it is ready. We needed to do the work, and take the operational burden off the enterprises. That is why we stayed silent. But we have completed all this work, now, and it is generally available – which is why we are talking more about it, and working with MSPs to expand this offer.”
And does Cisco have much of an opinion on the RAN side – in terms of how your system is deployed, or how it is paired?
“Of course, we have an opinion. But our backend system is neutral to all of that. It works with very traditional RAN, open RAN, virtualized RAN, and every other flavour of it – with small cells, macro cells, any cells. But, yes, we have a strong opinion that we can’t put the integration and operational burden into the hands of enterprises. Which is why we’ve been very selective about pre-integration and pre-validation, and software visibility for the RAN layer.
“We launched [private 5G] with JMA Wireless and Airspan, and we have just added NEC, and we will add more. But the core system is built to work with any RAN; the software stack, under the hood, has already been deployed in public networks. We have just announced exactly the same stack with T-Mobile US. It is a scale-up/scale-down design, which works with all tier-one macro RAN vendors in nationwide networks.
“And it is not just these large-scale 5G deployments, like with T-Mobile. We support more than 80 million connected vehicles and 200 million connected things in our platform – from 30 operators in 30 countries. So we are very confident about the maturity, scale, and robustness of the platform. But it is also crucial to pre-validate so we are not putting that integration burden onto enterprises. Specification, specification, specification is the key mantra for IT/OT.”
Are you direct with enterprises, at all, or will this always go via SIs and VARs?
“Our enterprise business is very mature; we have multiple routes to market, globally. We have every enterprise channel covered – through distribution, resellers, partners, managed service providers. For private 5G, because of the complexity and knowledge you need, you have to simplify it for the end customer – and so our first and only route to market today is with managed service partners.”
Just explain the strategic logic behind the three managed service partners you have signed with already?
“Ot is about vertical expertise, geographical coverage, and technical knowhow. That is how we have selected them. General Dynamics Information Technology (GDIT) is a big integrator and contractor in the defence and federal government sectors, where we see a lot of opportunities. Logicalis, in certain countries, has a very strong technical competency, and does a lot of business on the IT and OT sides. NTT has global reach, and can serve multinational opportunities. We have a long relationship with it in every part of the stack already, and it will provide global scale.”
You talked about targeting certain verticals; which sectors are fastest with this? Where is your focus, first?
“We see opportunities in the defence and public sectors, high-end manufacturing segment, transportation market, and also in public venues, like big stadiums and other outdoor venues. These will be the first verticals, which will augment Wi-Fi with 5G to solve tangible problems with digitisation. We have not seen any industry do this in isolation. Every opportunity, and every problem we’ve solved, has required Wi-Fi and 5G to work hand-in-hand.”
And geographies – is this a US, Germany, UK, and Japan play? Where are you most active? Or is it very quickly becoming a global pursuit?
We have very good access to the Fortune 100 / Fortune 500 companies, and we get a lot of feedback from them. Almost all of them – no one wants isolated operations; they want consistent operation anywhere in the world. so that’s where we want to go. We want to solve their problems. However, there are constraints around access to spectrum – so we believe that adoption will inevitably depend on access to spectrum, and, yes, because of the regulatory landscape, we are seeing early adoption in countries like the US, UK, Germany, and Japan. That is where the movements, but over time more and more governments will open spectrum, not only for private 5G, but even for public networks spectrum has not been allocated yet.
Some vendors talk about mining and utilities, also – as venues for wider-area private cellular. Are these sectors Cisco is less interested in?
“Yes. Because private cellular networks have been deployed in mining fields for many years, already – since as long back as the 3G era; and certainly private LTE networks already exist in those big outdoor industries. So we don’t see new opportunities in the same way. So we don’t really see those as new markets. And the markets we are most interested in are not just about connectivity, but about digitisation, and machine connectivity.”
Is Cisco’s position on private 5G a defensive one – so others don’t sell 5G into your Wi-Fi base? Is the exercise for Cisco more about selling 5G to existing customers, or about driving new business for other products as well?
“Industrial digitisation is never about one technology; it is always about multiple technologies. We actually care about the outcome for enterprises. We have a broad portfolio of technologies and products, and we want customers to use the right tool for the right job. The key for us is which industries need accelerated digitisation; we will bring a whole suite of tech to help them achieve that and be more productive, efficient, and safe.”
Does the telecoms industry at large, which has been hyping private cellular for some time, not understand the role of Wi-Fi in enterprises? In your opinion, does it not see the complexity of enterprise networking environments, and the development of Wi-Fi technology? Is the rule of thumb, in your view, that Wi-Fi will remain the default choice for enterprises, and that 5G is only a point solution in certain scenarios?
“That is what we are hearing from our largest enterprises, yes. 5G is for augmentation, when needed. It is like when you’re at home or work – what is the default choice? It is Wi-Fi. That is what you go to, without thinking? It is always Wi-Fi. That is how to think about this, and it is what we hear from every enterprise we speak with. You never deploy technology just for the sake of it, and 5G is no different. It is there to help enterprises to digitise faster and be safer – and not to add more operational burden. Like I said, enterprises do not want another network silo; 5G has to integrate nicely with what they already have – with common identity, policy, security, going hand-in-hand with Wi-Fi.”
What do you make of the role of mobile operators in all of this? How do you see them working with you, in some instances, whether as sales channels or integration partners, perhaps? How do you view their position, generally, in the enterprise space?
“Our channel approach is to go with managed service providers, and some of those will come from the system integration world and some will come from the mobile operator world. Some operators are already offering managed service with us in other areas, so this is another opportunity on the horizon for us and for them. They have a lot of capabilities at scale in the wireless domain, so that is one way we will work with them. Their other advantage is the ability to make a service seamless across hybrid private Wi-Fi and 5G networks, and into the public network. And that is an opportunity we are interested in pursuing in the next 12 months.”
